ICTY Court Records


Excerpt from transcript:

Page 942
1 provided at the time was technical assistance. They made a copy of the
2 tape, that’s all.
3 Q. Between the time you received the video, approximately a year
4 after you arrived in Belgrade, until your appearance in court yesterday,
5 do you know of any changes to the audio or video that was shown in court?
6 A. As far as I know, no changes were made. You can find the same
7 footage elsewhere as well. This is just one copy of it. I suppose there
8 must be dozens or hundreds of it floating around. This is just one of
9 those copies, and the only distinction is this one actually displays the
10 name of the organisation, Veritas, simply because they produced the copy.
11 Q. Are you aware, sir — strike that.
12 In your discussions with the filmmaker, who I believe you
13 indicated yesterday was Colonel Nestorovic, did Colonel Nestorovic
14 indicate to you that there was unedited footage of the scenes we saw
15 yesterday?
16 A. When he gave me the footage, the footage was clearly based on the
17 recordings that he had done in Knin. He put this together and that was
18 what I got. He was preparing for some sort of a festival, and it had
19 been aired on RTS. The film had been made public some time ago — some
20 time before. I simply happened to be there when The Hague investigator
21 was also present, and this gave me a chance to hand the material over to
22 them.
23 Q. Are you aware that the Office of the Prosecutor has the unedited
24 video that was originally shot on the 4th of August?
25 A. I’m not aware of that.
Page 943
1 Q. Are you aware that the audio from the original video has been
2 distorted in the video that you presented in court yesterday?
3 A. I’m not aware of that either.
4 Q. Let me show you a comparison of the original video that was
5 produced to the Defence by the Office of the Prosecutor versus the video
6 you presented in court. You will recall the scene of women and children
7 running across the street under an air raid siren, and I’ll let you
8 compare the one video that was produced by the Prosecution to the Defence
9 and then the video you presented in court yesterday.
10 JUDGE ORIE: Mr. Misetic, you have referred several times to the
11 audio as well. The audio is not in evidence, at least is not being
12 ignored by the Chamber.
13 MR. MISETIC: I’m not talking about the voiceover. I’m talking
14 about the actual sound what was happening in Knin, and I believe, Your
15 Honour, you did indicate that you were able to —
16 JUDGE ORIE: Yes, indeed, the sound of the shelling.
17 MR. MISETIC: Correct. Correct.
18 [Videotape played]
20 Q. Sir —
21 JUDGE ORIE: Mr. Misetic, before we continue, these two extracts,
22 are they uploaded in e-court, because would they need a number?
23 MR. MISETIC: The video you’ve seen is uploaded — this extract
24 is uploaded in e-court.
25 JUDGE ORIE: Both, yes.
Page 944
1 MR. MISETIC: I have not loaded the entire raw footage.
2 JUDGE ORIE: I do understand. I do understand that we saw part
3 of what we saw yesterday, and we saw a different version of the same
4 picture but different sound.
5 MR. MISETIC: Correct.
6 JUDGE ORIE: Now, you’d like to have this in evidence, I take it?
8 JUDGE ORIE: Then it needs a number. Now, how did you — are
9 these two separate items, or is it one item prepared?
10 MR. MISETIC: It’s one video, Your Honour.
11 JUDGE ORIE: It’s one video which contains a portion of what we
12 saw yesterday, and added to that the new version of that same portion.
13 [Defence counsel confer]
14 MR. MISETIC: I wish to be clear so there’s no misunderstanding.
16 MR. MISETIC: The video you just saw is in one video that we
17 prepared.
18 JUDGE ORIE: Yes, a compilation of the two. One we’ve seen
19 already and the together is one. Now, what is —
20 MR. MISETIC: Let me make sure we’re on the same page here. But
21 they come from two separate videos.
22 JUDGE ORIE: Yes, I do understand. Do you have a number for
23 Madam Registrar of what was just played, your 65 ter number or the D
24 numbers as you call them?
25 MR. MISETIC: It’s our 65 ter number 13.
Page 945
2 MR. MISETIC: For us. We don’t have is a — we just need an
3 exhibit number.
4 JUDGE ORIE: Is it clear what was played so you can assign an
5 exhibit number to it.
6 THE REGISTRAR: Not really right now but I’ll work it out with
7 the case manager with the Defence team.
8 JUDGE ORIE: We will already assign a number for it.
9 THE REGISTRAR: That would be Exhibit D13, marked for
10 identification.
11 JUDGE ORIE: D13, marked for identification, for the time being
12 and then the original number will be given to Madam Registrar.
13 Please proceed.
14 MR. MISETIC: Thank you, Your Honour.
15 Q. Witness 6, do you know who added the siren to the video you
16 played yesterday? Are you —
17 JUDGE ORIE: Mr. Misetic, in your question, it is implied that
18 the siren was added and not the birds were added. Would you please be
19 clear on that? We have two versions, two different versions. Whether
20 the siren was there and has been removed and replaced by birds, or
21 whether there were birds replaced by a siren is not yet established, so
22 you should not imply this in your question which could lead to confusion.
23 MR. MISETIC: Okay.
24 Q. Do you know who would have been responsible for the sound in the
25 video you played yesterday?
Page 946
1 A. I don’t think I can tell. I suppose the original tape that I
2 handed over for a copy to be made should be the copy that arrived here,
3 in addition to which I think the original tape must still be available.
4 I could have it sent to you personally, if that means anything, so that
5 you can cross-reference it to your tapes.
6 It was Veritas, was it not? I think not, because the only thing
7 they had to do was make a copy of that tape. I don’t think they actually
8 had the equipment to introduce any new editing moves or to change the
9 original footing.
10 JUDGE ORIE: It appears that the witness has no knowledge on what
11 has been done, so let’s stop speculating.
12 Please proceed.
13 MR. MISETIC: And there’s one additional clip, Your Honour, that
14 I’d like to show the witness. This is —
15 JUDGE ORIE: Is that then also a separate footage consisting of
16 two —
17 MR. MISETIC: That’s correct. In the break, we will add the
18 number.
19 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. Madam Registrar, that would then be D14, I
20 take it.
22 JUDGE ORIE: Thank you, Madam Registrar, and also marked for
23 identification for the time being.
24 [Videotape played]
25 JUDGE ORIE: Would you mind to play it once again, so I’m better
Page 947
1 able to see it – it’s very short – and so to better understand where the
2 differences are.
3 MR. MISETIC: And at the end of the video, Madam Registrar, if
4 you could keep the picture up, because I’d like the witness to identify,
5 if he can, the location.
7 [Videotape played]
9 Q. Sir, in this video, you see a gentleman walking —
10 THE INTERPRETER: Microphone, please.
12 Q. Sir, in this video, you see a gentleman in a uniform walking in
13 the background. Can you identify that person?
14 A. I have to admit — is there a person behind this car? Is it the
15 gentleman that we saw in that recording yesterday, Nestorovic? Again, I
16 really wasn’t paying attention to that because I hadn’t realised you’d be
17 asking me about it. But I do notice a person there behind, and this
18 person might be Colonel Nestorovic, the one behind the vehicle.
19 Q. Okay. That is the question. I wanted to know if you could
20 identify if that is Colonel Nestorovic in the background.
21 A. If perhaps we could make the image a bit clearer, then perhaps I
22 might be certain about that. As it is now, I’m merely speculating.
23 MR. MISETIC: Your Honour, we will play it back a few seconds for
24 him.
25 Q. And I have two questions on the scene, so if you could pay
Page 948
1 attention to the first question.
2 The first question, what I’ve just asked you, is if you can
3 identify the person in the video. The second question is if you can
4 identify the building in the background of this video, so that the Court
5 can be aware of where the hole is in this video that is shown at the
6 beginning of the clip.
7 [Videotape played]